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Breaking down barriers to workplace learning

19

Aug 2019

Breaking down barriers to workplace learning

Podcast and audio recordings

Following on from our initial Learning Insights research, the Kineo team discuss the common barriers and pitfalls responsible for the failure of learning at work and how to avoid them within your own learning environment.

Transcript

Andy Costello
Hello everybody and welcome to Kineo's Stream of Thought, a monthly podcast that features informal chat from the Kineo team about all things learning. My name is Andy Costello, I'm Kineo's new Head of Customer Solutions and today we'll be speaking about the barriers to workplace learning and how, as an industry, we can start to break them down.

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Andy Costello
Today I'm joined by:

James Cory-Wright
James Cory-Wright, Head of Learning Design. 

Matthew Mella
I'm Matthew Mella, Learning Consultant. 

Jez Anderson
And I'm Jez Anderson, I'm Head of Consulting. 

Andy Costello
Welcome chaps, thank you very much for joining us. So the Kineo Learning Insights report is now out - or phase one of a three-phased approach for our learning insight report is now out - and available on all good social media channels and our website, of course. One of the stats that hit me which I thought was quite staggering was that out of nearly 8,000 people surveyed, apparently 85 percent of them currently struggle to access training in the workplace. Now there must be an array of barriers to workplace learning there but that's quite a lot of people that are having trouble improving their own performance, their own competencies, their own skills and knowledge etc. Do you think that's a fair representation of the challenges people face today? James first of all.

James Cory-Wright
Well, I wonder what they mean when they say that they're struggling to access it. I wonder whether there's an absence of it, it's just a lack of training out there, or it is there but there are obstacles in the way, practical obstacles such as it's difficult to get hold of, difficult to sign up for, difficult to get permission for. Or is it that they're afraid of digital learning which is there but the obstacles are things like logins, which we all know and love. I suppose the problem with a lot of this research is that it throws up more questions than it gives answers. 

Andy Costello
Yeah. I just think 85 percent is a vast amount. 

James Cory-Wright
It's huge, yeah. And it makes you seriously wonder whether there's actually kind of a bigger gap underneath that. We don't come to work for our health and we don't come to work to learn. And maybe there's something in there - you could really ask, people say they don't have access to learning but actually do they even want access to learning in the first place? And it does raise certain questions. Also, we use the term 'learning', but as I just said people don't come to work to learn. So are we even using the right language around all this?

Andy Costello
I think it's a good point. It's not a priority. Is it even a consideration when people come to work, it's not right up there on their lists of things to do and perhaps they don't even consider the barriers until that question is placed to them. So Matt and Jez, both learning consultants, you've both been working in the industry for some time. In your experience do you agree with that stat, in your experience do lots of people have barriers to learning or have challenges about their learning, and if so what do you think some of these might be? 

Jez Anderson
I think it's easy to put a stat like that together because at the end of the day people have expectations around learning and what they believe learning should be in the workplace, based on their experiences. So if you're a group of learners that are used to being provided training courses etc. then the reality of it is if you're not provided with a training course, therefore you're not getting training. So there's something there about how people's relationship and expectations around training needs to be adjusted, and shift. 

Andy Costello
That's an interesting point - if you're used to receiving training courses and then you're not given them, there's a barrier there. So does the responsibility therefore fall on the learner to find their new way of learning, of accessing learning? Or does that responsibility lie with the employer?

Jez Anderson
I think it's both. I think there's something there around the changing nature of information and we all know that every time you talk to somebody about how do you learn a new skill, most people mention YouTube. They will say, 'I were on YouTube and I learned how to wire a plug' or 'I learned how to cut a tree down'. Whatever it is, there's an answer there digitally and we sort of do it naturally now. I think it's about the transition between what people are doing naturally and what is supported, what people see as being supported, within the workplace, and what role does the organisation play in starting to change the way they look at learning and supporting learning in the workplace, and maybe shifting away from curriculum based learning and content based learning to something which is much more outcome focussed and supporting people achieve outcomes. 

James Cory-Wright
It's also a cultural issue, isn't it - I mean in the sense that people have an expectation around learning or training that it's formal, and that's sort of still with us, isn't it, now, and I don't think organisations necessarily have done much to kind of bust that myth. So they might have taken stuff away, i.e. cut back on formal training, but haven't then sought to change the culture into a digital learning culture where basically people are encouraged to go out and sort of get the training that they need themselves. And I don't think organisations have also made all that material available, easily available. So it was formal learning in the past, there's less of it now but there's really not very much in its place. And really that's very odd because it's completely at odds with the world around us and the world outside the workplace, where there's never been so much stuff available and you do go on YouTube, but that's not being mirrored in the workplace. 

Andy Costello
Every organisation needs their own internal YouTube, don't they.

James Cory-Wright
Well, they do - actually they do, yeah. And all that wraps around YouTube too. Much greater use of collaborative software like Microsoft Teams, for example. And organisations do have those things, to share and to collaborate and comment. 

Andy Costello
And the data as well, so recommendations and likes and... yeah. 

James Cory-Wright
I know the title of this chat today was Overcoming Obstacles, and one way I would suggest is to sort of turn to whatever collaborative platform you're using in your business if you have one, like Teams.... What are the other ones called? 

Andy Costello
James, you mentioned earlier on that there isn't this provision, and that's a barrier - there isn't a provision that is there to replace these more formal training courses. And we hear now in the industry all these phrases like learner-led learning, power to the learner, self-directed learning... I know they've been around for a while but that taps directly into that: if they're not gonna provide the formal courseware then lead your own learning experience on the job, share, find out what you need to do from perhaps an array of curated resources, whatever it may be. But then there's a responsibility providing that content if you're not going to allow people off site.

James Cory-Wright
That's the key thing. It's laudable, it's all very well to say, 'Go and find it yourself, self direct and blah blah blah' but the organisation also has a responsibility to put a curator, for example, in place to gather that stuff together, to provide some sort of guidance - playlists and things like that - through the content, even though it's being delivered in a much more informal way. I think that's the bit that's missing, it's that cultural push. 

Matthew Mella
I think there's an interesting question as well about what people are actually looking for from workplace learning. We know that people are moving careers more often these days and moving roles more often. So are people looking for content to make them better in their current role or are they looking for that next role, that next career, and actually looking to their workplaces to help them with that? Because that's not traditionally the sort of content and training that companies have provided so much of. So that actually would present an interesting challenge to organisations if that's what their audiences are looking for. 

Andy Costello
Yeah, exactly. The challenge there for an organisation is, you know, what is the vested interest for them to upscale people to move on from their roles into another role and, potentially, another organisation? That surely goes against the instinct of maintaining your people. 

James Cory-Wright
Yeah, I made some notes earlier about this. A lot of it is about semantics - you know, going back to that point about people don't really come to work to learn, I also actually would question the term development. These are all terms that aren't very employee orientated. If you swap out development and talk to people in terms of their career, that's a very different thing and I agree with you, Matt - I think this research has some statistics that bear out that people look to training to prepare them actually for the next job, or at least to progress within the organisation within which they work, much more than ever before. So again, if you're talking about overcoming the barriers then another way of overcoming it is to more overtly and explicitly link training materials to career advancement and to make it more connected to an aspirational kind of attitude to learning. 

Andy Costello
So how do you convince an organisation to provide learning like that, that could potentially encourage people or at least upscale people or sideways skill people to move them away from the job that they're currently in?

Jez Anderson
I don't think it's necessarily all about careers, you know. When we talk about workplace learning, let's not focus just on careers because not everybody's career motivated or minded. A lot of people just turn up at work to do the job, to get paid and go home at the end of the day and they're quite comfortable with that. And it's how do we and how do organisations support that as much as supporting careers? So this is where, you know... there's this notion that as learning and development, you know the best answers for everybody. The reality of it is for me it's about freeing people up, enabling people to make the choices that they need to make about what's working for them as learners. So how do you create a learning system or a learning culture which supports that, which enables people to make those choices around what learning they need when they need it? So Bersin taught last year that 2020 will be the year of learning in the flow of work. And it's a great aspiration. The reality of it is is are we culturally - never mind technologically - ready for what that actually means in terms of supporting individuals whatever their motivations are, be it career, be it 'Just so I can do my job well enough to get paid and not get sacked'? That's the reality of it. 

James Cory-Wright
But it's all locked up, isn't it? Let's say you do decide as an individual that you do want to train in something, it's locked up, it's in a kind of digital cupboard - you've got to sort of work out what it is you need, then you've got to talk to your line manager or whatever. Then the line manager might say, 'Yeah, I know about this -  it's on the learning management system' or whatever, by which time you know the individual has lost the will to live. You know, we've talked about a cultural side of it and that's one thing. I think the other huge obstacle is the fact that everything's locked away and then what is locked away is actually quite clunky. And back to this thing about formal learning, whereas really if you're to achieve what you've suggested, Jez, in terms of making provision for everybody and allowing them to choose the things, you need to make the content that is available available in every single format and every kind of which way, genuinely on all devices. 

Jez Anderson
So then maybe breaking down barriers to workplace learning starts with L&D's practice, and the shift away from ownership and control of learning and learning information to much more about, as we talk about it and we think about ecosystems, much more thinking about the learner's experience of learning. Your role as L&D is to facilitate that experience and allow people to learn how they want to learn, where they want to learn, when they want to learn - and, to a degree, create more trust within the learning relationship so it becomes less parental and less didactic as an approach. It becomes much more focussed and empowered for the learner. 

Andy Costello
So Jez, I wanted to have a jargon alarm here. For the benefit of people that might not be so familiar, in 25 words or less, could you quickly explain 'ecosystem' to our listeners? 

Jez Anderson
So when we're talking about digital ecosystem we're starting to think about how you use different technologies, but even so it's more than that now. I think, for me, it's about the relationship that we have with the learning process itself - I'm sorry, this is more than 25 words, Andy. But it's that thing about actually what's important is the experience that a learner has and how you support and encourage that experience and how that experience allows people to access the content that they need to do their jobs, and then how do we learn from what they're accessing. So what data does that produce, which then enables us to help them make better choices. So in some ways it's about shifting away from learning and development doing formal, traditional learning needs analysis on a 12 month cycle which locks them into a set of resources in the sense of content to something which is much more open. This is a broad range of content that people can access at point of need when they need it but supporting them and understanding that, actually, there's a pathway through this as well. 

Andy Costello
I think that explains it. I was expecting perhaps something a bit more physical but actually you're moving away from that to something more theoretical now - rather than an interlocking array of systems that create an ecosystem, it's actually perhaps something a bit more... ethereal. 

Jez Anderson
I think it is theoretical because the ecosystem is delivered by technology, and at the end of the day when we talk about workplace learning we really should stop talking about technology being something that is just about providing technology, but actually it's providing a learning process. It's actually how people access content now. That's the fundamental aspect of an ecosystem: how do you support and facilitate and enable people to get the content that they need to do their jobs, or to progress their careers or whatever their motivation?

James Cory-Wright
Perhaps in a way we've articulated the biggest barrier of all, which is that we've been talking about learning, learning, learning, learning over and over and, quite frankly, for today's workforce it's got nothing to do with learning at all. I mean people don't want to learn. It's about usefulness. When you want to know something, you get it and it helps you. So we need to move to a much more sort of resource based model. Just in time, point of need learning, all those things actually do really fit a purpose. They all do resonate. They're not clapped out expressions. Learning, as far as I'm concerned, is faux in the first place. 

Jez Anderson
Don't fall into the trap of applying the word 'learning' to the system and the structure of learning. Learning happens all the time, all around us and we're doing it all the time. You know, I've learned something today - don't know what it is, but I've learned something. Probably I've learned how to use technology better. But it's like that sense that we're always learning; you don't have to have it structured and presented to you all wrapped up in a nice package with a folder and a program. 

James Cory-Wright
I don't disagree with that at all. We learn all the time and everyone's very happy with that. I think everybody knows they learn all the time. It's semantics again. It's talking about learning and calling it learning. I think that's the problem. 

Andy Costello
'I need to know how to do this task' rather than 'I need to learn this entire process'. And that leads me on to another point if I may - Jez and Matt, bringing you in here a bit - we're talking about the provision of appropriate just-in-time learning at the point of need or whatever it might be, the transference of knowledge for a particular task... One of the biggest challenges that people in the survey have come back with is that they just don't have the time to put to learning, that they have difficulty in securing time off the job because of the pressures of the workplace. Matt, with your learning design hat on, are there ways that we've helped, as an industry, people make the best use of their time so that it's less pressure off the job to find space for their 'learning'?

Matthew Mella
I think one way we've done it is reappraise the actual format that we deliver content in. Certainly if everything is buried somewhere on a learning management system, sometimes you really do need to know what you're looking for in order to find it, so it can take a while just to get to the content that you need. So I think certainly this is something that the next generation of platforms is looking to solve through increased personalisation and you really, I don't think, can underestimate how much creating networks of people who are constantly leveraging those assets to help each other, the effect that that can have in order to help people. I think it's quite easy to see learners as being quite siloed - so they are sat at a desktop computer and looking for a piece of learning - but actually it's much more dynamic than that. So maybe they need something on the move, so they need it on the phone. Maybe we just need to be injecting our content into the traditional 'turn around and ask the person next to you' kind of mentality. So obviously what can be quite difficult for companies is that there's processes and there's habits that are going on because people are just training each other, because that's what people do within organisations, rather than looking at the central source because that's a lot easier. It's a lot more dynamic and it's a lot more instant than having to go and search that information out. So if there's ways that the content can become part of that structure that already exists, I think we start to meet some of those challenges. 

Andy Costello
Thank you, Matt. Another sort of negative kind of connotation that we hear or at least a barrier that we hear mentioned, and not just from people who want to learn but actually throughout our industry, is lack of budget, lack of funds - there's not enough investment in training provisional learning. And I don't just mean technically but I mean for content, perhaps culturally. Do you think this is true? Do you think learning is taken seriously at the bottom line, and is that even a relevant question?

Jez Anderson
It's hard to say, I think, because I suppose it depends on each individual's experiences based on their own organisation that they work for. And some people invest and traditionally have invested heavily in learning and development, other organisations less so. So I think it's difficult to put an overall view on it. However, I probably will try and my sense is that it's about how you spend the money. Traditionally, it started off where it was training courses. We all know that face-to-face training courses are really expensive. It moved to elearning and then it moved to that writing piece of video which is equally expensive, it just has greater reach. The reality of it is sustainability and it still has a place, as does face-to-face training. I think the reality of it is it's about, again, going back to - and I asked the question of learning development - is how are you choosing to use the budgets that you have? Is it to write content that you own, or is it to facilitate a learning process? And if it's the former, and it's about writing and owning content, there'll never be enough money because people will want variances on something. It will never be right for everybody and you will always be looking to develop new ideas, new thinking, new programs, new courses but there will never be enough money to do it. If it's the latter, where we're starting to think about how do you facilitate the learning process, how do you support individuals in accessing what they need when they need it - so maybe moving to a curation model, maybe starting to think about how do you look at content and knowledge and information differently within your organisation. Maybe you can afford to do that. And I think that's a question for us as learning technologies, but it's equally a question for those working as practitioners in learning and development. 

James Cory-Wright
That's a very, very good point you make there, Jez. It's kind of a move to a service model, on both sides - you know, L&D as a service, a facilitation service. And maybe, in terms of suppliers like ourselves, providing a service as curator/creators and a shift away from putting all that time and effort and energy into creating quite monolithic chunks of content. 

Andy Costello
Do you think there is also a risk that organisations, by looking to get the next best thing and find the newest piece of content that they can put into this pool of assets and this curation of material, are missing tomes and mountains of stuff that they already have - that over the years most organisations will have created stuff that's still usable and viable and relevant? 

James Cory-Wright
Well yeah, that's bound to be true. And that's where the curator comes in, because that's the first task of the curation process - it's not the first task but it's one of the first tasks - is to look and try and find out what you've got. And then the other first task is to work out what you need. 

Andy Costello
And that's a huge barrier removed straight away, isn't it? 'Actually, we've got stuff here. We don't need to find a budget for x, we just need to now find a way of making it accessible'. 

Jez Anderson
I think if you think about curation in its classic terminology around you go to a gallery, to an art exhibition and you talk to a curator - when they put together that, they haven't just gone and looked at the artist's file and said, 'Okay, we've got all these paintings, we're going to shove them all up on a wall'. They've found some logic, they've found a story, they've found a purpose and a reason for the pictures they've selected to be seen and put in a certain order or a certain perspective or a certain view. And in some ways that's the same thing that learning and development, we've got to do now - we've got to provide people with the ability to create these logical pathways through all this content. 

Andy Costello
They find a story... and that's so true, actually, isn't? It is a tableau of things that has some resonance and some relevance. And yeah, if we can do that then... 

James Cory-Wright
I think another thing is to recognise that it doesn't have to be perfect. Always bear in mind the goal. 'Will it be useful?', not 'Will it be perfect?' - 'Will it be entirely correct?' even. People are perfectly used to working with imperfection. Also, by the same token, they will personalise themselves. We're all incredibly skilled at personalising our learning paths now as digital consumers. 

Matthew Mella
I think that also opens up opportunities for people to actually crowdsource more of the content internally because there are a lot of experts out there in businesses who are doing the job every day and never really get consulted when it comes to making the training. So a lot of those people are very happy to share and to create that content. So if you're not looking for that kind of professional kind of agency gloss on the content, who knows what you can leverage? 

Andy Costello
So that's a really good point, actually, and therefore you don't need high end technical specifications to do that. So it ceases to be technical barriers that we're talking about but perhaps cultural ones. If you like the magic bullet theory it's an easy question, difficult answer: how can we encourage cultural change to allow organisations to allow their own employees to share content and knowledge and insight? And do you think, generally, organisations trust their people to do that? And obviously this is a huge, blanket, sweeping generalisation about a great many different kinds of organisations. But do you think those are real challenges, that sometimes people aren't trusted to do that, to share their own experience and their learning?

Jez Anderson
There's two questions there, Andy. One is about trust and do you trust your employees to learn what they need to learn to do the job without you telling them to do that - well, maybe not. The reality of it is, is that L&D's responsibility to do that or, actually, is that the organisation's responsibility to manage their people accordingly? My perspective on it is that if it's about performance then actually who's the best person to judge if an individual is performing? It's the manager, it's the person that's there to do that job. Now, their role should be then if someone's not performing is helping them identify where they're not, and training is part of that solution. The other aspect of it is about culture and about the shifting nature of organisational learning cultures, and how do you support organisations to become more adaptive and allowing people to be part of communities and creating those useful communities and allow them to be transient and allow them to ebb and flow with need, without necessarily feeling that you've got to own it and you've got to manage it and there's got to be a process - which is a bigger issue, because that's about releasing control. So although control and trust are completely linked, one is the organisation's responsibility towards the individuals as management but the other is also then about the learning cultures that you provide and allowing people to learn what they need, when they need it. 

Andy Costello
And how do we encourage that kind of a culture, Jez?

Jez Anderson
I think technology has a big part to play in that. And I think what I'm finding now, talking to clients, is that they're increasingly looking at what technologies they currently have and how to use them better. And part of that is understanding that they've got all this content, they've got all this material, they've got ways of managing that, they've got data, but they just don't know how to pull it all together to make sense of the picture that they've got. And so part of it's about making sense of the picture, and I think it goes back to my earlier point about how do you create positive learner experiences and almost like learning cultures which are based on positive learning experience vs. based on good content, because the reality of it is in the past it's always been about good content. Now it should be focussed on 'How do my people learn and how can I support them in their learning processes better, to enable and empower them to make those choices?'. 

James Cory-Wright
But it has to come from the bottom and it also has to come from the top. So it's a classic sandwich, isn't it, and it's got to come from the very top. So it's a classic challenge in that there's nothing new in that respect. Maybe the lure is that it's a great opportunity to make more of what you've already got. For very, very senior management, if you put that to them: 'You could make more of what you've got, you could save x squillion pounds a year', um... 

Andy Costello
Are you suggesting that very senior management are barriers to learning?!

Matthew Mella
Maybe one issue could be that development, in some cases, might be a bit too linked to performance management, and that could cause a barrier in itself. 

James Cory-Wright
Some of my best friends are very senior management and, far from being threats, I see them as opportunities!

Andy Costello
Back to Matt's point - yes, I think that's a really good point. Are you talking more about measurement and the feeling that, 'Hold on a minute, this is linked to performance - this is linked to how well I'm doing', and therefore there's a reticence that comes with actually taking stuff on or not taking enough stuff on? 

Matthew Mella
Yeah, and it could be that when people have their reviews at the end of the year, the same one where they're getting their performance ranked, there's the box in the same form that's about the development that you've done this year. So it's all tied together. So maybe if you decoupled those two then it opens up the world of development and training, and the definition of that within the organisation, much more. 

Jez Anderson
There is part of me that disagrees, Matt, to a degree, because I think it's about coupling it but, going to James' point about semantics, if you start to create development and you put it into a PDR form, whatever it is, and you say, 'At the end of your year what development have you done, what courses have you done to prove this?'. Well, to be honest that's irrelevant, what courses you've done - it's what learning have you made, what learning have you had as a result of doing whatever courses, whatever experiences you've had. And how do you, as a manager, understand that in terms of the individual's performance. 

Andy Costello
Surely it's all tracked, isn't it? 

Jez Anderson
Again, does it need to be tracked? Why do we track it? The reality of it is, can the person do the job or not, and has the learning that we've provided them with and the support that we've given enabled them to do it better than they did last year. That's what's important, surely? 

James Cory-Wright
I mean the answer is staring us in the face and that is just to sort of let go. Stop sort of feeling that everything has to be controlled, that everything has to be tracked, and everything has to be chunked up into quite large sort of things. Just make all the knowledge and the information that we have available to people. 

Andy Costello
You mentioned there about providing access to learning they've got internally on these mobile devices. What about externally - what about allowing your people to just go out and search public domains to find industry-wide knowledge?

James Cory-Wright
I think both, and you've just said it: allow your people to do this. Why on earth are we even in this situation of 'allowing'? Let alone allowing, maybe encouraging might be quite a good start. So many people come to work with smartphones, and one of the interesting findings that I thought was that there's a genuine appetite, apparently, for people to kind of learn stuff outside work hours, when they're travelling or even when they get home, dare I say it. 

Andy Costello
Controversially off the payroll. 

James Cory-Wright
Yeah - very strange, that. That's a positive attitude towards people rather than the kind of classically negative...

Andy Costello
And it's paid back, isn't it? 

James Cory-Wright
Yeah, but where's the stuff for them to consume? All you've got to do is make it easily available on all devices and then, to be honest, the research suggests people will consume it. They will make use of it. There's a huge opportunity here. 

Jez Anderson
I think that it's interesting when we talk about measurement and we talk about what's important for people to measure. Traditionally it's almost been like, 'How many people have we put through a training programme? Can we prove that everybody is doing it?', and it's tracking what people have done and when they've done it, which is useful to a degree for somebody, I'm sure. The reality of it is what is the impact that that's having, and I know that we're spending quite a lot of time exploring what we mean by impact and how learning supports impact at a personal or organisational level, which is a big question. And I think it's a big question for learning and development to ask themselves. It's fine to be recording data about progress and tracking that information, but what value does it have in terms of that impact? And if you can't answer that question, if you can't say that 'the information that I'm tracking helps me understand the impact my input as a training provider is having on our organisation' then the reality of it is that you're measuring the wrong stuff. 

Andy Costello
It's useless data, yeah. 

Jez Anderson
So again, why do we operate in the way that we have operated? And is it just because it's what we've always done around here, so therefore we're not going to change it? People's attitudes to knowledge is shifting, people's attitudes to how they acquire knowledge and access information. Go on any tube in London or any train in London and look around the carriage - how many people are on smartphones on their way into work? And I would say it's probably anything between 50 and 80 per cent of people are engaging with the world outside their immediate environment. How, as employers, do we tap into that and make that relevant? That, for me, is how you start to think about breaking down the barriers to workplace learning: it's actually not about the workplace, it's about what you need to learn to be more effective in the workplace. 

Andy Costello
Excellent points, everybody - well said, thank you very much. That's a really good point to end on, Jez. I think we've come from breaking down the barriers using technology and thinking about technological barriers to cultural barriers and then actually how technology can help drive that cultural change - not just inside but, perhaps more importantly, outside the workplace. 

Andy Costello (to the listener)
If you'd like to carry on the conversation, please do - you can reach out to us on Twitter (we're @kineo) or via our website, which is kineo.com. Check us out on LinkedIn. My name is Andy Costello, we've got James Cory-Wright, Matt Mella and Jez Anderson with us today. On LinkedIn you'll also see us banging on about our learning insights report, part 1 of 3, which is out and it's a must-read for anybody who consumes, buys or supplies learning technology. Thank you very much indeed everybody and we'll see you next month.

Speakers

    Andy Costello

    As Head of Customer Solutions, Andy leads the Kineo EMEA sales team and brings a 20-year industry track record of Learning Technology expertise. Andy is passionate about driving exceptional customer service and develops close partnerships with clients, ensuring they achieve success not only for standalone projects but long-term strategic goals. Andy also plays a key role in consulting on projects and account relationships across Kineo, is regularly featured on our podcasts, and is a sought after speaker at industry events.

    James Cory-Wright

    James has over 25 years' experience of instructional design and video scriptwriting. He heads up our team of learning designers and consultants, overseeing learning content design across all client projects. James has a reputation for creativity and innovation in elearning, having worked on numerous successful projects and regularly attends industry events, presenting our latest thoughts.

    Jez Anderson

    Jez leads Kineo’s consultancy practice, providing expert advice to help our clients make informed, measured and appropriate decisions about learning technologies. He has worked in L&D for over 20 years and has a background in experiential and action-based learning.

    Matthew Mella

    Matthew has worked in all manner of elearning and media for over a decade. He loves to combine attention grabbing ideas, storytelling and good UX with solid learning practice. With one eye on the future, Matthew’s passionate about new technologies and platforms for developing skills and knowledge.

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